"Indeed, what forces us at all to suppose that there is an essential opposition of 'true' and 'false'?
             Is it not sufficient to assume degrees of apparentness and, as it were, lighter and darker shadows
             and shades of appearance-different 'values', to use the language of painters?"
                                                                                         FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE

           "Here and there we understand and laugh at the way in which precisely science at its best seeks most
             to keep us in this 'simplified', thoroughly artificial, suitably constructed and suitably falsified world-at
             the way in which, willy nilly, it loves error, because, being alive, it loves life"
                                                                                         FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, Beyond Good and Evil.

           " The "seeker after knowledge" the "opposite man", is "secretly lured and pushed forward by his cruelty,
              by those dangerous thrills of cruelty turned 'against oneself.'" The insistence on truth is "a violation,
              a desire to hurt the basic will of the spirit and unceasingly strives for the apparent and superficial."
                                                                                         FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE

Of course I realise that "nobody is perfect".

I think what is called for is a discussion on the "approach" that Carter takes.
I have read all of his posts. In many of them he has argued for his right to "ask" for some sort of evidence or proof.
This is undoubtably without question, of course Carter has the "right to ask for proof or evidence". The problem arises when one realises that in none of his posts has he actually exercised this right. Carter has never directly asked anybody what the evidence actually is for their stories. He simplly produces broad statements such as "of course we all know that there is no scientific evidence for this or that" and "of course this or that does not really exist". Carter offers advice such as "medical checkups", "psychologist consultations", and in one post even mentioned the possibility of "asking a priest" even though he himself is a self proclaimed athiest. He is also running low on his "Carl Sagan" quotes. I am not trying to cause any offence at all, I am just pointing out that Carter is running low on "credibility". I have not seen Carter post any threads on the Demonology and the Devil section with the title "Please send Carter some demons!" or "Please send Satan to carter!" that would show that he is genuinely trying to investigate all the facts. Even Carl Sagan genuinely tried to make contact with "aliens in outer space", giving his work some of that "credibility" that I mentioned.

It is probably a bit early to make any solid conclusions about Carter just yet, he is new after all.
We will just have to wait and see how he goes over a bit more time, I wish him well.

Vivid

lol. I've always wondered how i could prove to someone who couldn't actually see me or other lycans turn. There isn't a way. Even if i were to turn in front of a skeptic, he/she still wouldn't believe it. Any and all proof could be faked. For some reason most of humanity has trained itself to "turn a blind eye" on most of the paranormal. I have heard of people going nuts when they experience the paranormal and cant explain it. I dont know what to tell a skeptic. To each their own. If I'm only imagining the danger and pain and stress linked to the paranormal, then someone snap me out of it. Tell me the scars on my body are made up, tell me that the fear i feel when i look up at a ten-foot tall solid mass with glowing eyes is not necessary.  lol. You would be doing me a favor. Im sure that almost all of the people who experience the paranormal or are part of the paranormal Didn't ask for it and Have stress associated with it. All i know is what i know. "I think therefore I am".  Now......... 

In response to Bluemoon:I hardly doubt that anyone who saw what you described would still be skeptical if such an event took place.Not only that there are plenty of ways you could provide proof.Set up multiple cameras,that most certainly would be one way,another would be to provide blood samples-certainly anyone who turns into a wolf would almost certainly have numerous anomolies in their blood stream.Not to mention your complete physiology would have to support a transformation which at this time isnt skepticsm it's a medical unreality.I will gladly look at,read,or witness any transformation of any kind if the material is readily avaiable. With the  availability of forums such as youtube & myspace certainly many of the members could post videos of their alter-egos if you will.I think it would be interesting to see,from the goth's to the vampires  etc.... It doesnt even have to show anything.I claim to be boring in comparison to many on here but if I ever catch up to the 21st century & get a digital camera/recorder i myself will post a linkable video for all to see me in all my boring grandeur.Peace out,Carter   

I think you have got a point Rasui.

Mainly in that the site here has been set up for people that have had different experiences of reality, compared to the average, mundane or "scientific" if you wish, experiences that many or even a majority of the population are accustomed to. Seeing as this forum was set up for the specific purpose of people sharing their unusual experiences, it would be unfair to place a heavy burden of proof on the members here. Even science is a statistical school of understanding, where many foundations are based on statistical averages, so of course does not encompass the entire range of uncertainties that make up the whole of existence as we know it. And on a final note; This forum was set up for people that have had unusual, un-natural or super-natural experiences. It was not primarily set up for the scientist to come along here and start demanding proof from everybody. If there are any scientists out there that believe that this forum has been set up especially for them, so they can go around debunking peoples stories and life experiences, then we must apologise to them that they have been misled in some way, or have misled themselves with a misguided "superiority complex" or other pathalogical psychiatric or psychological disorder.

Thanks for your input Rasui.

Vivid

Sounds like carter has been watching too many "infotainment" shows, and other quality scientifically empirical programs such as Mythbusters! Believe it or not, a lot of high end science has found evidence for and is not so coldly skeptical of un-ordinary aspects of reality.



As I did not mention carter at all in my post, I can only assume that his reaction indicates that he considers himself to be one of those "scientists out there" that I mentioned.

As a scientist, surely he must realise that science itself is a modern mythology, and like most faiths, belief in science chooses its own "valid" forms of evidence and provides its own justifications.
Any culture  relies upon a set of unconcious agreements as to what constitutes meaning or "fact" and can be allowed into discourse. When faced with information that falls outside these parameters, cultures and individuals alike reject, neglect or actively suppress the ill-fitting data. Yet the repressed elements return to haunt them eventually, psychologists tell us, as dissociated projections of their psyche. Ultimately the only model of reality that can sustain us is one that accounts for even the most intractible and seemingly anomalous aspects of our experience.

Indifference and skepticism are two potent forces in the modern mentality. They have been elevated to the status of "values". They are part of the way we have learned to inure ourselves from shock. They furnish us with a certain shabby level of comfort.
To be an "indifferent skeptic" is to have reached the end of a certain evolutionary line, all that remains is the piling up of fact and statistic, to be sorted into categories of explanation. Moderninity and science has unleashed a succession of shock effects, changing the nature of perception, as well as the individual's relationship to his own personal history. "Experience" has fallen in "value", and looks as if it is continuing to fall into bottomlessness. The old culture of contemplation has given way to a mass absorbtion in distractions. Wise counsel and variety in experience has been supplanted by the endless parade of statistics and information in the daily newspaper. To enter the modern "scientific" world, most have forfeited their capacity for intimate exchanges requiring reciprocity, the interplay of imagination and different models of perception. "Information" as such no longer carries any real value as it always shot through with "explanations". It is a tragic modern fate for the skeptic scientist that they long for meaning yet recieve only explanation.


So carter has thrown the burden of proof back on us again? Personally I believe that no person, save a few, like carter, has joined this forum with the need to justify themselves to anyone. I cannot recall any posts here where people have asked for someone to examine their experiences for the purpose of empirically proving to themselves that their stories are true? Personally I feel that if we were trying to get our stories printed in the newspaper, or a science magazine, then sure, there would be an onus on us to provide some proof. But we are not. We are not here to try and justify ourselves to anyone.

Finally with carter pointing out about 90% of stories in the world having NO CREDIBLE PROOF. Well, what about carters story? Do we have to believe that he is a credible and qualified scientist capable of an unbiased examination and assesment of our experiences? I say no. That we should require 100% credible and empirical proof that he is who he says he is. How about a video of his graduation ceremony on Youtube, along with more video of him being patted on the back by well known and reputable scientists? Some video evidence showing he is the person posting on this forum. And some dna tests as futher empirical proof of who he is and not just a look-alike of some kind. Let him give us some credible, empirical evidence that he is who he says he is first. Then maybe we could furnish him with some information comfortable in the knowledge that it is not going to be abused or mis-used in some way.
If we wish and feel the need to that is.

Vivid

VIVID: I find it more rewarding to watch shows that bring science to the supernatural because thats all the supernatural or paranormal is.Something science has yet to explain in all it's wonder.But considering that im interested in science that would probably be a normal thing to do.I do love to watch all the crappy B rate movies as well.As i've stated just because my approach on Monstrous is primarily scientific in nature doesnt mean I cant watch,study or read all the supernatural with the best of them.This is still s forum for discussion right Vivid & anyone else who disagrees with my views?I maybe mistaken but this is still a forum to share ideas & ask questions?That is one of the many ways  how we  evolved from THE DARK AGES of religion into the truth of science.It's not a superiority complex to ask for proof thats what sets apart the truth from the fiction.I would figure that this of all forums would appreciate an honest search for truth & information so maybe I was mistaken Vivid but you are sadly mistaken if you think my purpose is to debunk any claims made here.

I ask questions of the individuals stories being told whether it be in the Mayday section or the Demons section.I dont berate or harass anyone just because they dont share my opinion.I can always agree to disagree depending on the circumstances.

I am eager to learn anything new here from anyone regarding their respective stories.LEARNING & BLINDLY ACCEPTING ARE 2 DIFFERENT CONCEPTS.We learn by asking questions,formulating ideas or hypothesis & then testing those ideas.Is someone comes here & says they here noises in their house im not going to jump to the conclusion that it's haunted automatically.Im going to ask rational,relevant questions to perhaps help with the situation at hand.
Sure beats telling them to call GHOSTBUSTERS in my opinion!If someone claims to be able to alter their physiology into that of a wolf,yes im going to ask questions,namely proof.Im sorry but when you claim to do what modern science tell us is impossible in more ways than 1 yes in going to ask.Once again,why get pissed if it's true?That story if true would only be one of the greatest finds in the history of the universe,so why run & hide?Perhaps it is you who watches too much bad information in regards to the interest of science.


Now on to some debunking of myself Vivid.I never claimed I was a scientist of any kind.My comment was that perhaps Monstrous should develop a new class called "scientist" for those that enjoyed the paranormal but viewed it in a different light.I would be happy to post a picture of Carl Sagan & myself but I dont posess one because i've never met him.His writings & view points give me great ideas for thought as well as a comfort that religion never did.I do however have a picture of myself & Dr. Drew Pinsky of LOVELINE fame if you would require that?You want a blood  skin,or hair sample?I'll give that too.How about e-mail?COVERR2@YAHOO.COM Thats for the Tampa Cover2 defense(Ilove football). Cell-937-654-7602.What else do you want to know?I wont run from ANY QUESTION that someone asks.Graduation video?Well I could try to upload my highschool one but I only went to college for 2 years.My major was poli-sci.I enjoyed working on political campaigns & current events. There's nothing & I repeat nothing I wont discuss about myself.If you want proof & I have it,you'll have it.  ASK AWAY.